Toys, computers, and TV with Headgates ideas
posted July 06, 2010 11:07 AM
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I grew up in a family where toys ment love. And it still continues with Grandpa today. So my children have ALOT of toys.
We have 3 computers downstairs, down from the 4 before. They are all unplugged but still, it seems like a rediculous amount to me. Grandpa was trying to help with homeschooling and having them play learning games on them. They are not new or anything.
2 TV's. We could deffinately go down to one. We keep them turned off mostly.
Here's my thing, I have been reading headgates and I fully understand the ideas of limiting all this time wasting junk. TV, I can handle. Computers, I don't want to insult my father. I would like to keep one, but not the rest.
But toys.....I have watched horders, I have seen how taking away things from a child can be very damaging to them. I have convinced them into having a garage sale at the end of the summer to get rid of all the battery operated ones. At least I have convinced the oldest couple of children. But they will want to at least buy legos with that money. And she suggests 15 toys total in the house, with 8 children, not going to happen. I am just having a hard time wrapping my mind around it to make it work. And then even if by some miracle I convience my kids to cut down that drastically, what would I do about birthdays and Christmas where the toys they get from Grandpa are about 7-10 toys per child? I have always felt like we are drowning in toys. And now I am starting to get concerned in lack of progression of the oldest two children from the Core phase. The oldest is getting into Love of Learning but barely and he is turning 12 next month.
All these changes must be done on my own with out help from my husband.
Part of me feels like a failure and that I am drowning. The other part of me understands that I am swimming in deep water, that is my lot in life, and I just need to keep swimming.
So I feel like I starting to see the situation as it is, and I need to make a battle plan and asses things around here.
Thanks
Lov
Liv
Toys ect and headgates
My MIL is a gift giver as well. Mostly, Christmas gifts are really important to her. She does ask for a list of ideas for each child, which is nice, but I've learned if she doesn't think it's fun, she won't get it, lol. So I explain what my children's interests are and try to head off the most repulsive things and give her sites to visit, ect.
A couple of years ago, we moved into a 700 sq ft studio, "temporarily". We're still there, lol. With 3 children and one on the way, clutter can be a huge issue. I struggle with this even tho we really don't have much compared to most families.
Great books can be good gifts. I got my MIL excited about the Narnia series for DS and she got it for him (and a prince caspian toy set, but still...)
Also, as far as hoarding goes, I was a pack rat as a child but once an adult I realized that I didn't want to hoard things because it cluttered my home (I had to take care of it or store it) and my mind, I became ruthless. My MIL won't give DH certain childhood items because she is sure I'll toss them, lol. (who knows, I might!)
I think it's also important to teach children why we do things. Why are we getting rid of toys? "Doesn't your room look so much nicer without all the toys all over the room?" "Isn't it nice not to have to spend so much time picking up?" My children play longer when there aren't so many things to choose from.
I don't think having less toys as a child will make a hoarder out of them as an adult. Maybe if things were taken away in a cruel offensive manner, but I can't picture most moms doing it this way.
Headgates
for those of you who would like to discuss Headgates in depth, I have started a discussion forum about "What do you agree with in the Headgates article and what do you disagree with?" at tjedlibrary.com. Just sign in and click on "forum."
Headgates is very thought-provoking. I agree with the general idea of using "headgates" to block the flow of wasting time with cheap thrills such as TV and toys that don't encourage imagination but I think banning Legos from my home is not right.
My mother
Liv, there was a rather long discussion on ldfr.com. Is that your situation?
I recognize that there may be a lot of truth in the headgates article. I haven't read it, but I have read the list of questions and answers related to it on the author's website. I have two major objections:
When it was written, the author's oldest child was 9 years old, barely out of Core. So while she may have book knowledge, she doesn't have much experience with older children in a TJED setting.
Second: The tone of the answers was: "This is what works for me and I am absolutely certain this will work for you," strongly implying that this is the only Right Way to do it.
So! Are you remembering to take what fits your situation and what you have prayed and found is right? Are you remembering to drop what will not or cannot work in your situation?
I know there's a need to honor parents, but when you leave home and marry, you leave behind the need to obey parents. It's painful to cast off traditions of the fathers, but sometimes it must be done. Your first responsibility now is to God, your husband, and your children, not to your father.
How are you doing in your core classic? Prayer? Spending time with dh? Family Home Evening?
Meals? Sleep?
Do you have a new baby? Are you being watched for post-partum depression?
I'm not trying to stress you. I'm trying to get a more complete picture and I feel you may be too tired to think of everything.
Keri and older children
I would like to comment on Keri, author of Headgates, not having any older children...I am her sister-in-law and live two blocks away from her. All of her ideas for older children come from our experiment using these principles with our 6 "older" children. My oldest is 19 and youngest is 6. The changes we have made in our home, including ridding our home of LEGOS, have created an incredible desire for learning (just in the last 6 months). We spend much time collaborating and sharing our experiences and I can assure you that she knows what she is talking about because she has seen it with our, as well as with other nearby families.
Thank you
I appreciate you letting us know that Keri has been working with older children, too. I just remember how I knew everything when I started homeschooling, and then discovered painfully over several years just how wrong my assumptions were.
I did download Headgates and the other articles on the website. The articles about creativity and executive function were just what I need right now; my 5yodd and my 13yodd both show signs of poor executive function. My three sons have varying degrees of screen addiction; I have to be quite limiting, especially with the 3yo. The 18yo is beyond my reach now, and the 15yo is about as self-regulating as one could expect from a relatively mature young man his age. The 15yob just returned from one week of Scout camp, where he served as Assistant Senior Patrol leader. He and the SPL had to send one boy home twice. The boy is 12, has Aspergers, and has a mom who doesn't hold him responsible (she was there at camp against the Scoutmaster's advice). Executive function problem... plus an enabling presence... not good. At least nobody got seriously hurt.
Which of your children were most into Lego bricks? How did they handle not having them any more? What reasoning did you give? Have you regretted the decision at all? How did your children use Lego bricks when they had them?
OT: The Lego Group requests that the word "Lego" not be used as a noun because they could lose their trademark if it becomes too common.
"Building Blocks"
Most of my children spent hours with them on a regular basis, however, my son, who is now 17 was the most interested (the other five are daughters). He would be occupied for long periods of time building and inventing and then he would want to keep them in their finished product on his shelf "forever". I always had a funny feeling about it and yet I felt as the rest of the world did, that it must be a very important part of development that I just didn't understand yet. Looking back now, I wonder if I was sucked into the toy manufacture's conveyor belt system that promotes toy candy for their own gain. That sounds pretty harsh, but having rid our lives of the stuff, I see more clearly what it was doing to our time, our innovative thinking and our home's disorder.
For several years I have on occasion packed the pieces up in a box and stored them in the attic because of the frustration that I did not yet understand. Then when I thought we could handle them I would get them out, but always they would be strewn all over the house magically "even after we picked them all up," my children would exclaim. The story was always the same: hours of play, mess left out, formed figures demanding a place on the bookshelves to be displayed for weeks and a regular devotion (and maybe addiction) to building, building, and building.
We took them to DI last February after a discussion with everyone in the family. The children were a bit disappointed at the beginning of the discussion, but could understand our frustrations because of good experiences with earlier "purges". Over the last several years we have purged stamps; scrap-booking tools and papers; cute crafts that end up as clutter and many other "headgates" and always the children begin with disappointment, but soon they comment on how free their life feels. So when we rid our home of the "building blocks" the children remembered previous times and the blessings that came from simplifying. We have had no regrets, however, we have had numerous comments from the children in the form of gratitude that we don't own them any longer. One child said not too long ago when she eyed a bag of "building blocks" in our local DI (thrift store), "Mom, boy am I glad that we don't have those any longer!"
Simplifying in this way has certainly been a leap of faith. Going against the grain will always be a leap of faith, but now that we are on the other side, the grass is much greener.
older children
In response to the older children comment as well, I'd like to point out that the DeMille's started Thomas Jefferson Education while their children were very young as well. You don't necessarily need to have "gone through it" to be smart, good or right! :-)
With that said, just like ANYTHING we read, we need to take the principles and apply them in OUR personal families. It's so easy to jump onto whatever new conveyor belt method is out there and try to make it work. A lot of what was said in the Headgates article worked relaly well for us, but somet hings I found didn't "fit" our family. That doesn't mean Keri is WRONG or that I'm not doing it RIGHT. I have found, for instance, a lot of truth in the simple fact that getting rid of "stuff" does eliminate a lot of unnecessary stress, time of cleaning, and attachments.
It is very difficult when parents and in-laws do not fully grasp the kind of lifestyles their children want to follow. I have a similar situation with my parents, not to such an extreem, but similar nonetheless. I'm trying to gain the courage to tell my parents instead of buying things for my kids, can we put it toward a family trip or something. On the other hand, knowing that these things do represent love for my mother, I need to accept her token of love and let the kids feel that as well.
Anyway, good luck in your quest for striking a balance!
Yea, I started that thread
Yea, I started that thread over on LDFR, but after no one with a TJED mindset answered, I came here. I want your biased views from over here.
My baby is 6 months old. I am doing well mentally, postpartum wise. I have had PPD in the past with other babies and the Lord is protecting me this time, I guess. Plus I have a great friend that watches out for me.
I have this overall feeling of cleaning house. Cleaning out all our time waisters. Cutting out the things that keep my children from reading. I know that I need to adapt to my needs and I feel like this is what we need.
I can see how she might not understand the older phases, and I too agree that she comes across too much like "since this worked for me, it will definately work for you". But at the same time she had some great points. Especially in the area of not developing because they are stuck waisting thier time.
I also need to set a schedule. I have always been terrible with that. My Asperger husband and Son both desperately need that. And I feel completely lacking in that ability. But like I said, my husband has AS and I have found that any change in the home, anything to with leading, is up to me. This point I don't want to argue with. I have recently have come to understand him and this with how it relates to marriage and it is hard enough to come to term with. So if your answers could come from the standpoint as a single parents with a helper, I would be grateful.
I think I will start to ask my father that in the future for presents that he would get them memberships to places or lessons instead. I think he might go with this. I do honor him that he feels likes gifts are love. However he has complained about being concern in their education and how he sees that my oldest is not measuring up. (Granted he is the one with Aspergers). But hopefully, he will be able to see that all that stuff he buys is just a distraction.
Plus I am tired of spending sooooooo much time cleaning it all. Even as a family, cleaning takes too much time.
Lov
Liv
Julie's Schedule
Here is a schedule that works for us. My children are ds-17yo, dd-16yo, dd-14yo, dd-9yo, dd-6yo. The older have less house jobs because they are reading for summer classes (scholar phases)
4:50 I wake up and exercise until 5:45
5:45 DH gets up with all the children to go outside and weed for 30 minutes
Everyone gets dressed and ready for the day, ds-17yo prepares breakfast, dd-9yo and dd-6yo set the table and dd-9yo makes the green smoothie in the Vita-mix.
7:00 Scripture reading and breakfast, then dh leaves for work
ds-17yo cleans kitchen after breakfast, while dd-9yo rinses dishes, cleans sink and sweeps and rag-mops the floor. Dd-6yo clears table, wipes table and chairs, wipes one cabinet front (different each day), organizes pen/junk drawer, organizes placemat drawer, takes out the compost and carries the empty canning jars to the storage room.
"Getting the house ready" jobs:
dd-16 dusts the whole main floor, wipes down three bathtubs and cleans room
dd-14 vacuums the main floor alternating days with sweeping the entry hall, cleans 4 bathroom floors and organizes towels in all bathrooms and cleans room
ds-17 vacuums the whole basement, takes out all 13 trashes as they need it and cleans room
dd-9 cleans four toilets and cleans room
dd-6 cleans four bathroom sinks and vacuums the stairs
I clean all mirrors in bathrooms and rest of the house (I make a point to work alongside my 6yo until she is about 8), start laundry as needed, deep cleaning where needed as the others are working. Note: the older children do their own laundry together, while I do that of my husband and I and the younger girls', the rags and other things as needed.
9:00 Kidschool with 9yo and 6yo for about an hour. We sing a hymn we are memorizing. Currently we are reading volume 3 of "The Story of the World" and a chapter from C.S. Lewis', The Horse and His Boy. The older children usually do Aleks math for an hour and then read their books until lunch.
10:00 we do what we call "Family Work". This is where I train the younger children to do "mommy jobs". The older children are still reading and don't participate unless they can and want to.
Mondays we deep clean in particular places
Tuesdays is sewing day- mending and finishing quilts, crocheting or knitting the items our family needs
Wednesdays is cleaning the refridgerator (9yo and 6yo have been doing this for a few months now by themselves while I make menus)
Thursday is baking day. 9yo makes our sourdough whole wheat dough and cleans up the mess, makes our salad dressings for the week as we need them and I am making FHE treats to freeze and other items we will use for the week.
Fridays is errand day and catch up day--and to do those things that unexpectedly "come up"
Saturdays we work out in the yard and fix things and play
11:00 is lunch and the process is exactly the same as breakfast with the following exceptions. I prepare the lunch and dd-14 cleans up with the younger girls.
After lunch I have my cherished reading time until about 3:00pm. We call this our "free time". The older children may still be reading or taking online classes through Williamsburg Academy or working on projects, etc., the younger girls are often in the back yard exploring the insect varieties, climbing trees or playing with their pioneer handcart in their "Laura and Mary Ingall's" dresses. Last week they begged me to let them wash their play-clothes in a bucket and hang them up to dry, just like in "olden times." (This incredible "mommy" play has come about ever since we got rid of most of our time-wasting toys--see headgates.org) I find that when our toy closet has simple things in it the child's play changes into such productive and imaginative play. The closet consists of a rope, a couple of dollies, a small bucket, dress up clothes (ballet, skirts, and pioneer clothing), blankets, a wooden highchair and two wooden crates. During the Fall and Winter the younger ones fill up their free time with reading and drawing.
3:00 is our "Quick Sweep" The younger girls clean up their play things, go through the house and pick everything up, set the table and help me prepare dinner.
4:00 dh comes home from work and we eat dinner.
Dinner cleanup is exactly like breakfast except that dd-16 cleans up the kitchen with the younger girls.
5:30 younger girls get ready for bed (I know that is early but we get up so early and they need approximately 11 hours of sleep) Dd-9 is allowed to stay up for 30 minutes to read her book if she went to bed nicely the night before. Dd-6 is allowed to listen to a story at night if she went to bed nicely the night before. We allow them to write in their journals just before going to sleep.
The rest of the evening is for relaxation, discussions with the older children, working in the garden, reading, meetings or other things.
I know we have an early schedule, but I hope it helps you see how most of my motherly jobs are taken care of so that I have time to make menus, see to the deeper cleaning, preparing lunch and dinner and other things that moms can't get to because they are doing it all. The children are more prepared to be parents when they can pull their own weight with the family jobs. Good luck.
Basic schedule
On other posts I have put what I find most important in a schedule. Here's a brief reprise:
Bedtimes for everyone. Get-up times for everyone. At 12 years old my children are still under my responsibility to ensure they get sleep. I do not allow sleepovers unless for some reason Dad and I both have to be out of town overnight without children. Even then, only with parents I know will supervise children. Sleep is necessary, not optional.
Meals. Snacks. It boils down to about every three hours my family needs food of some kind. My dh was raised on Wonder Bread and Captain Crunch, so our current diet is a compromise. I'm willing to buy candy and limit it to one piece per person per meal or snack (no chocolate for bedtime snack because it keeps people awake). I buy only whole wheat bread. I have a bread machine and could make it (have grinder, flour, recipe, yeast, pans, etc) but find it takes too much of my time and energy. I even buy whole wheat poptarts (Fiber One) when they're on sale. But everyone must have a fruit and a vegetable at each meal. I buy microwave popcorn and plain salted tortilla chips for when we simply must have something crunchy. I keep apples always in the house, and try to keep carrot sticks, too (again, I delegate the peeling to the people who make them into 'baby carrots').
Screen time: chores first. Then half-hour computer per person. Movies and videos (no cable or satellite) are at Mom's discretion; they're supposed to ask first. When Mom is napping, though, all bets are off. We keep only appropriate videos in the house, and anything violent is put out of reach of small children. When our children get old enough to want their own email, we may allow more computer time. I do not type emails for them; therefore they do not need their own email until they can both read and spell well enough to be understood and they have things they want to say, plus someone to send email to besides Grandma. Likewise no Facebook. No texting until they have income and desire to buy their own cell phones (no using mine). This also means no Webkins or other sites that require membership until they're over the age of 13. We made an exception for Roblox when our son was 12, but limited it to half an hour a day.
Having said that about screen time, when Mom is ill, getting naps and knowing children are okay is more important to me than strictly limiting screen time. They do watch more videos and get away with longer turns when I'm ill. I count my blessings that they do not hurt each other (generally) and usually use things safely... that is, nobody has broken a leg nor has the house burned down as yet. I do strictly enforce when I'm feeling well, and they generally take it in good part. Not always cheerfully, but they recognize that it's a rule for a reason and that I'm in charge. I find that showing a lot of love and appreciation of their honest efforts helps.
Oh! and exercise. Our 15yods when he was a toddler would be impossible to put to bed at night if he had not had an opportunity to run around during the day. I try to stretch and dance in the winter, walk in the summer. A fenced yard is indispensable for small children. Even if they are able to climb over or open the gate, the fence gives a sense of boundary, especially if it has been enforced consistently.
WOW some food for thought here!
I for one need to go and read this article on 'headgates'. One thing I can without a doubt admit to is that FACEBOOK takes too much of my time and distracts me from schooling even which is NOT good.
Let me go read and see what I can gather cold be helpful for our situation. We use MEGA Bloks by the way lol.
LOL Mega Bloks
We have a few Mega Bloks. Their sets tend towards a more bloodthirsty appearance (not that all Lego blocks are saintly; not so!). The clincher for me to stick with Lego bricks, though, was when my 14yods took a plastic knife, the type you take to picnics, and sawed right through a 1x2 Mega Blok in a few minutes. I actually prefer the clean-cut appearance of Lego blocks, besides their durability and interconnectivity. We found a tote full of several sets of Mega Bloks at a thrift store a couple years ago; the children played with them exclusively for one day (one Brikwar game) and threw out the ones they found ugly or useless. I was disappointed to discover that Mega Bloks don't fit together as well as Lego bricks do. We mainly keep the flats, the large flat pieces that you can fit an entire building on, because Lego flats are expensive and do break more easily because they're very thin.
Some years ago we got the Community Worker set from Lego. It has about 30 cheerful characters, with smiles instead of the angry faces found on most of the military sets. I'm really glad we got them. We also get a lot of bricks from Bricklink.com; in fact I'm about to go online to Paypal to pay for a shipment from an individual seller. The shipment consists of one ostrich, one camel, one scorpion, and one monkey. That way we can get just the pieces we want instead of entire sets.
We avoid Bionicle like the plague. We get the Lego magazine because we have ordered from Lego Group directly; the sections on Bionicle and now on some other group of mechs I read a couple times, then threw out completely. We were given some Bionicle sets but I did not encourage any kind of following their storyline; it was totally unnecessary and negative. The Bionicle pieces instead went into my older sons' mechs, for their own storylines. We do allow computer games that have mechs in them (MechWarrior the earlier games, MechCommander I liked). The mech games led to a lot of scientific learning, which led to our subscribing to both Popular Science and Popular Mechanics. My eldest son reads them in detail. We also have the Wall Street Journal, originally because my dh needed it for his college business courses. Now we keep the WSJ because it's fascinating to learn from. There was an article one time on Lego Group vs. Mega Bloks, which led to lots of economics discussions.
I can see that it may change my children's development to have the ostrich, the camel, and the monkey already made, instead of building or imagining their own. On the other hand, I was always frustrated as a child by not being able to keep anything I made; it always fell apart and looked junky. I love having toys that are cheerful, that make sense (not the majority of McDonalds' toys), and that are nearly indestructible.
I do not have a Facebook account; I already spend a lot of time reading and posting on the internet. It would be another distraction, with dubious value for me. I like social interaction, in limited amounts. The kind of substantive conversation that goes on here is better for me. My husband is an extrovert who loves to keep track of people on Facebook. As an extrovert he gains energy from being with people. I need to take a break from people every day (my 18yods asked me recently why an introvert would choose to have seven children--it's because I'm in charge of them. They are my mission at this point in my life, but they will not always be my direct responsibility).
Should add
I should add that the children have to get my approval for any set they buy. Not usually a problem, because we discuss in detail just about everything that goes on here. They know where I stand on most issues. If my son were to express a wish for a Bionicle set, I would ask him what he likes about it, what he doesn't like, which pieces he's most bent on getting and why. And if I didn't like his reasons I would ask questions to make him think it through thoroughly. This works on most things, to turn children to a point of view I can put up with.
Some things have never been allowed into our home; we don't wear clothing that pictures cartoon characters or that says anything even remotely anti-social. No Spiderman underwear, no Batman toys, only a couple G.I. Joes from Grandma, and when my son discovered that the G.I. Joes did not fit with any of our other toys and that I got rid of the accessories (they were left on the floor...innocent look), he lost interest. We also avoid any cartoons that are "trendy". I don't mind small doses of Popeye and Bugs Bunny, but no Power Puff Girls, no Dexter's Laboratory, no Spongebob. We had one Strawberry Shortcake doll house, but never had the doll. It held other dolls until dd lost interest. We do have My Little Pony, the earlier ones without facial tattoos. The little rump symbols don't bother me (you have to be able to tell the ponies apart), but the tattoos are unsafe interference with skin. Again, when these issues come up, we discuss them. Since my sons have never had the option of wearing Superhero underwear, they don't miss them. We did keep a Superman pajama top with removable cape for a few months; it got constant use until it wore out. Then it was gone. Likewise butterfly-fairy wings for the girls, and fancy dress-up dresses. (It's hilarious to see my three youngest children decked out in an assortment of Mardi Gras beads, wearing pants and shirts with dress-up dresses over them. I insist on the pants for modesty. The 9yog wears a very worn princess dress, size 4; the 5yo wears a fancy dress someone gave us that was way too short for the intended child (size 8); the 3yo boy wears a pink gown, size 14, over his motorcycle shirt and jeans. The pink gown does not touch the floor... He insists that he's a "pinsess". He plays with cars and boats the rest of time; I don't worry about it.)
My mil gave us bags and bags of clothing every few months. I went through it all before my children saw them, and I told her what would be acceptable and what would not. One of the things she put up a fuss over was shorts. I insist on longer shorts, knee-length if at all possible, for modesty. When she discovered I would not keep any short shorts in the house, let alone let my children wear them, she stopped getting them.
I suppose in my way I'm just as much a control freak as Keri is; I just draw my lines in different places. Which is fine; I'm raising different children with different missions than she is.