Eragon and Eldest
I feel that these two books are classics (so far; I haven't finished _Eldest_). I read a lot of fantasy in the past, though a lot less since I started homeschooling. Suddenly real history seems much more important to learn. But these two books impress me for two things: they are full of true principles, and they are very readable. Many people will like them for their plots and characters, which are marvelously well-done. But not many fantasy novels have this much truth in them. And they teach without being preachy or pedantic.
Right now I'm reading where Eragon is learning the unintended effects of a blessing he gave. It has proved to be a curse to the recipient. I'm impressed by Eragon's humility and determination to do everything the best he can. I'm also impressed by the wide variety of characters and motivations the author has included; just as in real life, there is no way he'll be able to tie up every loose end... ;D
Agreed
I would agree that the Inheritance Cycle is a classical work. The author, although young, was able to really portray many many moral situations. The good versus evil, and the power of thinking big, setting goals, and working hard to achieve them.
I have to say that Paolini does a pretty good job of giving us closure in the last book. I'm sure it was an incredibly hard thing to finish off, but he did great.
The book set is definitely one I will encourage my children to read when they get a little bit older.
I feel the same way about the Harry Potter series.
Evelyn
Eragon VS HP
Rachel,
So many homeschooling parents think that if their kids read the HP series, they will want to go out and become occultists or Satanists. This is just not true. Let me give an example; when I was a kid, there were these fake cigarette candies that every kid loved to buy and use to "pretend" to smoke. We would pretend to smoke and then eat these fake cigarettes. Yet none of the kids I grew up with (me included) ever smoked or had the desire to.
Another example; when I was a kid, boys got play guns, play bazookas, play grenades, play army tanks and missile launchers and so on. Yet these kids didn't grow up wanting to shoot and fight people; most of them grew up to be pacifists and ordinary people.
Exposure doesn't automatically mean they will want to BE the thing they are exposed to. Kids are smarter than people give them credit for...in the HP stories, they get to try on a different persona, delve into a different type of life and then come back home to their regular life. Kids use pretend to do that as toddlers but as they grow, they use books to do that but they know it is pretend and they don't really want to become the pretended character.
The difference between the Eragon series and HP series is a difference in writing ability. Eragon series is formulaic, very much the hero's quest and it is not very deep in character development or thought. HP series is not so formulaic, has deep character development and includes a lot of thought and provokes a lot of thought. It is the difference between having sweetened flavored water and the best, purest, spring mineral water. It is unfortunate that religious people cannot see the good in the HP series only because they cannot get past the witch, wizard, and magic terminology and concepts.
Part of the problems
Part of the problems I have with the Harry Potter series have nothing to do with magic or sorcery. A big problem for me is Harry's lack of a supportive family of his own. I understand that there are children who come from totally dysfunctional backgrounds and do well, but they are the exceptions, not the rule. I also object to Harry's fairy-tale leaving his Muggle relatives and being Cinderella-like; I like escapist fantasy sometimes but I don't want my children to feel that leaving family relationships behind, even painful ones, is okay. Family is to be worked with and learned from, not run away from.
Another problem for me is the way adults act in the Harry Potter books. You will say, but they act like that in real life. Yes, sadly, they do. It's not behavior I want my children to emulate.
Hogwarts is a scale-model of a public school. It imitates uncannily the precise reasons why my children are being homeschooled instead.
Eragon also has a large number of dysfunctional relationships. I cannot deny that it has a formulaic plot and a certain predictability. I prefer it over Harry Potter, even though Eragon is far bloodier. I'm inclined to think Eragon acts more maturely than Harry Potter does. Eragon's tale of good vs. evil is more obvious, more cut-and-dried. I think it's easier for a younger audience to understand. The characters are less messily part-good, part-bad.
Why is one fantasy series so embraced and one so rejected?
You know, I hate to disagree, but these books are just not classics for me-- and I am a HUGE fantasy reader! They're fun for children to read, and I was impressed by how young Paolini was when he first wrote them, but that's about as far as it goes for me.
My two eldest boys, however, LOVE the series and are counting down the days until the new book comes out this month. They've read it, re-read it, and discussed it at length with each other. I originally read the books out loud to everyone when they came out. I'm sure we'll be doing the same when the new one comes out. But this series feels very "fluffy" to me.
Christopher Paolini has worked hard on the series, I'm sure, but it really is pretty stereotypical fantasy. I'm afraid I'm not impressed with his writing. Maybe he will improve with the next book? *blush*
I'm sorry if I sound negative, I just really don't feel that these books deserve the kind of praise they receive in the home school community (I guess because he was homeschooled?), especially when J.K. Rowling's works are so vilified by that same home school community. For me, her stories have so much more positive impact and truth in their pages, and have a much more compelling battle between good and evil than do the Eragon books. I learned so much more about myself, about families, friendship, human nature, standing for the right, sacrifice, and being a true leader from Harry Potter/Rowling.
I am just so puzzled about the sweeping objections to the HP series, while a far more inferior series is praised to the skies...
Just voicing a dissenting opinion *grin*,
Rachel Keppner
"ASPIRE to INSPIRE before you EXPIRE!"
Interesting
My children listened to me read the first, I think three, books of the Harry Potter series. I was distressed to learn that they were getting more and more violent and dark as they went along, so I preread the fourth and then refused to read it aloud. My older children read it themselves, and my oldest dd has read all the other Harry Potter books, but we as a family have avoided them since then.
We read _Eragon_ aloud; I was impressed to find many true principles in it. It is very violent, more so even than Harry Potter's first book. I have not offered to read _Eldest_ aloud, though I did try to read it myself. I have not finished _Eldest_, though my dd has and is impatiently waiting for her preordered copy of _Brisingr_ (she paid for it herself).
I find I have lost taste for pure fantasy. I'm much more inclined to read real history or at least historical fiction instead. Since my original post stating that I think _Eragon_ and _Eldest_ are classics, I must amend that to say that _Eragon_ is still classic to me, especially as compared to the Belgariad or a number of other fantasy series that have been popular at different times. Part of my objections to Harry Potter have to do with the rise of the occult in general in our society. I object to gothic culture, to Satan worship, to witchcraft, to voodoo, to ouija boards, to fortune-telling, to the whole notion of "power without responsibility" and I feel that if my children become too attached to Harry Potter, they may want to become part of the culture that goes with it.
I'm glad you explained that Rowling's books have helped you learn. I found that while the characters are more or less accurate to the way real people act, I certainly don't want my children to act as they do. I can't stand to read books about popular high school culture (Sweet Valley High and the like), either. I found that Harry Potter's milieu was full of people I would choose not to associate with in real life. I'm thankful to be a homeschooling stay-at-home mom; my dh can go out into the world--he's welcome to take over that responsibility for me, and he enjoys working with lots of different people, which gives me pause.
I understand that our children need to know how to behave in public, and need to understand that some people cannot be trusted for even a moment. But in my home I don't want that behavior, and I am afraid that if we dwell on petty misbehavior, that my children may become less obedient, less honest, less ethical. On the other hand, we watch almost all of the Star Trek movies, and we watch all of the Star Wars movies (except number 3, which is reserved for older children and parents only). We discuss ad nauseum.
One of the things I particularly like about _Eragon_ is that Eragon has a mission to perform, and while he doesn't immediately learn what that mission is, he has a clear objective to learn more. He is constantly improving his understanding and his abilities. Harry Potter is stuck in the public school culture that I despised as a child--the culture that puts emphasis on appearance and superficial abilities, that gossips and worships celebrities, that stresses boyfriends and girlfriends instead of friendship and courtship. It's the painful side of small town politics and very little of the good, unifying elements. You don't see community feeling. Harry Potter is not always trying to improve; when I stopped reading at the end of the fourth book, he was very much a teenager, not a Scholar.
to add
We watched the movie, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, at a time when my then-14yods was being persuaded by another young man (a member of our church, even, so we saw him twice a week at least), to "be a kid while you can", to avoid responsibility and wait until later to work. My ds took it under serious consideration. In his personal interviews with his parents and in his conversations with me (Mom), he stated that he didn't particularly want to work hard, that he wanted to spend more time being a child and being taken care of, not straining for adulthood and more responsibility. He's a cautious person by nature, and he was afraid he'd make mistakes and get hurt if he took responsibility for his own choices.
At one point in the movie Peter has to defend himself from a wolf that means to kill him, not wound, not pester, Kill. I felt inspired to turn to my son and ask, "What would have happened if Peter had said, 'no, I want to stay a child longer'?"
In the book and movie, _The Last Unicorn_, Prince Lir says, "Things must happen when it is time for them to happen. Unicorns may go unrescued for a long time, but not forever. The happy ending cannot come in the middle of the story."
I want my children to have a clear vision of what they can become, which means I must strive for a clearer vision of what I can be. I don't want to use my time for small-mindedness. I understand that building up community requires addressing people who are small-minded (in my town there are a large number of retired people who should be mentors; a few are, but there are many who are playing in their old age). I know that at some point I will have to become more involved in the town I'm in, even though it's not a unified community except in fragments. I'm afraid to become emotionally attached to the town I'm in, because I'm trying to teach and to maintain in myself, a loyalty to true ideals, true principles. I'm trying to avoid loyalty to people except as necessary--not because I don't like people, nor because they don't need my loyalty, but because in my core classic those who put people before principle end up losing people and principles. Those who cling to true principles tend in two directions, either towards severe loneliness, or towards lifting the entire society to a higher plane. In either case, the persons become leaders and good men and women. That's my objective.
Just to clarify...
I want to acknowledge that i got way "off topic" and that no one in the thread said anything about Harry Potter. *blush*
I was just venting... :-p
Hugs,
Rachel Keppner
"ASPIRE to INSPIRE before you EXPIRE!"
Eragon and Eldest
I have read both books and would consider them classics.
I had the question put to me, and I have some ideas, so I'd like to put it to you.
The author is so impressive do you his work is all his own or do you think he had help from say his parents who from what I understand are publishers?
Rachel
Re: Eragon and Eldest
I'm glad to hear how much you like them. I've been meaning to request them from the library so I can give them a try.
KELLY
Re: Eragon and Eldest
I've read both books and found them to be fantastic.
I love the writing style, and the characters are definitely ones you can relate to.
Also it does come up with some interesting philosophies and ideas.
I am definitely putting it on my classics list.
Angel
Re: Eragon and Eldest
I have read both of these books - and gotten them on audio cd for car trips. What I find most enjoyable about these is the seemless intertwinning (sp?) of many different authors and classical styles in the plot and character development. My family has had fun detecting relationships to other authors we know and love, and talking about what impact these other stories must have had on this young author. It is also inspiring to my son (11) to know that the author of Eragon was only 17 when he wrote the first draft of his book.
After reading Tokein, I
After reading Tokein, I made the mistake of rereading Eragon. What a huge drop!
the plot : a princess with a valuable stolen article accidentally leaves the article with a boy of unknon origin...he turns out to have unique powers, saves the princess from her captor, has a mysterious adn dark father...HMMM that sound familiar..
I was also EXTREMELY disappointed by the anti religion slant of the third book and it tainted how I saw the first two books as well.
Eragon
My 12 yo. would second this!
She has actually made a long list of all the 'similarity' she found in Eragon and in LoTR series and was utterly disappointed!
This summer, she is very excited that they are offering a Tokein course at the college she is dual enrolled. I am happy that she has developed her passion through her readings.
Best,
she is dual enrolled in college
She is dual enrolled in college; so we're dealing with differences in age group, maturity, reading ability, patience, interest. My 16yodd has read both, but recognizes that there is more within LOTR to get, therefore for someone mature enough and patient enough, there's more in it. My 12yodd is not interested in reading LOTR, but is listening to Eragon as an audiobook. She cannot read very much nor very fast, and Eragon has a lot more action.
One of things that really impressed me with Eragon is the author's incorporation of economic principles as a way to solve problems (making lace for profit). Tolkien didn't put any economics in his except for the Dales and Lake People trading. Oh! And the estate sale in the Hobbit. The Elves in both might as well have been economically on different planets. I felt both tales dealt well with some of the risks and problems in being near-immortal. The treasure trove in Lonely Mountain is an unlikely ploy for dwarves to pursue. The dwarves in Eragon are much less mythical and much more believable, because we see their internal politics (well-portrayed as far as I could tell) and their need for some interdependence. We get to see more of the real struggles in maintaining trade and supply lines in Eragon than in LOTR. The humans in LOTR seemed very cookie-cutter to me. Basically, LOTR is a fairy tale, and Eragon is a supposition that if you had Dragon Riders and separate races, this might actually happen.
Of course, it's a matter of taste, as well. The Belgariad was well-written and a page-turner (it encouraged the reader to want to know what's next), but it was unrelentingly negative in tone. Eragon has a lot of similar catastrophes, but there's a feeling that once he discovers and acts upon his vision for the future, good things will happen. The guy in the Belgariad basically has things happen TO him. Eragon takes action. Even doing the wrong thing can be a strength, because he has the guts to make a change.
I felt like LOTR was what a philosophical man who doesn't labor with his hands (and is in no danger of ever starving) might write. He doesn't dwell at all on the effort required to feed, house, clothe, and transport, troops. Can it be he was oblivious to this?
By the way, we saw part of the movie Eragon at WalMart (captive audience on the way past the electronics department). It did not follow the books at all. Terrible. We hope for a better remake in future years.
turning green
My dd will want to know how you finished the third book already. She just got her copy from Book World (where she had preordered it) and was on page 231 an hour ago. (slightly green with envy)
Oh, wait, did you mean it sounded like STAR WARS??
LOL.
It does sound very familiar, is called a hero's quest, is a recurrent theme in historical epics and in fiction generally, past and present. So? I felt that Eragon is very well-done, a credit to the genre, and an encouragement not to give up and to be careful what you promise and to whom.
My dd got to a part of _Brisingr_ (third book) where Eragon owns his first book ever. She said he's expressing her joyful thought: "I have my book! I have my book!" (she has been waiting impatiently for months for this book--she even paid 30 dollars for it out of her own money, tightwad that she is.
I grant that Tolkien and Eragon are not in the same league. Tolkien's work reflects maturity and depth and years of concentrated effort, steeping himself in his made-up lore like a tea ball in hot water. But Eragon moves faster with the impatience and vigor of youth; it's the hand-knit rope to Tolkien's hand-embroidered heavy brocade. I only read Tolkien once every dozen years or so, because it's so deep and slow-moving and, truthfully, depressing, that I cannot wade through it any more often. I have hope that Eragon's saga will not prove quite so negative.
Come to think of it, Tolkien's books remind me of the scene in Star Wars where one of the officers on the first Death Star says that the Jedi are gone, their power has gone out of the universe, "You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion." Just as the elves and dwarves and hobbits and dragons and, likely, dragon riders, disappear eventually.
Wishful thinking. The past was never as wonderful as it's remembered, and the future is not as gloomy as it may appear.
yes
I did read _Brisingr_, and I do think it's a good book. Maybe not as classic as _Eragon_, but a worthy addition to my and my daughter's book collection. I felt that it reflected the added maturity and perspective of its author. And I felt that if Christopher Paolini is a man like Eragon, he will be a good and useful man, a good example, both of learning and of correcting mistakes.